On December 27, after the intervention of the President of Russia Vladimir Putin and with the mediation of Patriarch Kirill was a big exchange of prisoners between the self-proclaimed republics of Donbass and Ukraine. Few people know, but it was planned that the second phase of the exchange could take place already in early January 2018. However, after the filtration camps in the Ukrainian Svyatogorsk in the day of the exchange was taken back to colonies and investigation isolators of all citizens of Russia, and the exchange from the formula “306 75” suddenly “shrank” to transfer prisoners 233 supporters of the LDNR in exchange for the 74th Ukrainian prisoners and “hostages of war” about the second stage only are discussed in Minsk on 10 January.
photo: Dmitry Durnev
Who is left out of the December great exchange, very important for Ukraine and also at the last moment held back “in reserve” the self-proclaimed republics of Donbass and why in Kiev had taken “a political decision” to remove from the exchange of the Russians in the first days of the new year said the “MK” the people’s Deputy of Ukraine Nadezhda Savchenko.
– Hope, why the exchange was so nervous and what you need to do to the second stage of the prisoner exchange took place?
– First of all it is very good that the first stage of the great exchange took place at all. Not even looking at what happened he’s a little “funny” because the negotiations lasted a very long time and they were never able to organize all these lists.
You need to distinguish people in these lists – prisoners of war and hostages of war on the one and the other. You need to single out the Russians as an example of war crimes of the other powers against our country. And should be highlighted as a separate category of Ukrainian political prisoners in Russia.
And then have to move on to the questions of how to establish the process and what should be the next exchange of prisoners.
– Whom Ukraine was not able to take from Donetsk and Lugansk?
– Prisoners of war today traded almost everyone. Left undiscovered from the Ukrainian side about 70-80 people. They are not all confirmed from the side confirmed at the moment up to 40 people. Among these forty, for example, who was arrested in June 2017 Ukrainian journalist Stanislav Aseev, which the DNI is flatly refused to give.
Others may be among the dead, missing, unable to be transported to Russia as his time moved me, and may be held in places that we don’t want to show.
Accordingly, the next step for us search all of these people and their subsequent verification.
Remained five important non-exchange Ukrainian prisoners of war. Two in Luhansk occupied territory, three on the side of Donetsk. These people are from the SSO (special operations Forces – approx. MK), the military of the 3rd and 8th special forces regiments.
Three of the 3rd Kirovohrad special forces regiment are in prison in Donetsk for the fourth year, was included in the lists for exchange, but at the last moment was replaced by other people, civilian “hostages of war”. The party did not reduce the list, and just changed the prisoners.
We looked for them, asked about them, they had to pay along with all prisoners of war, but at the last moment they didn’t. I can understand the other side because these people are most valuable for them is the greatest struggle. If you take the analogy, Savchenko – this is that of political prisoners, which was released first, and the Director Sentsov one that can produce last. Why? Must be the “icebreaker” and “closing” – two valuable person, which unwinds and serves as an incentive explain why on the topic exchange should work.
And the guys from the 3rd regiment. Wife two of the commandos and sister were the third most active company in Ukraine for the release of prisoners and now a lot of people received their loved ones in freedom thanks to their great work, and they are left to wait for their loved ones. Therefore, they will not stop, Petro Poroshenko promised them that will be connected and will perceive their initiatives about a possible exchange of their husbands. And we, too, will do its utmost to help.
The next step of the exchange should be relatively quick and go after the first. We can say that the first stage of an exchange “all on all” split into two parts. Here in Kiev there are approved lists that were just nedodelannye because there was no desire to give all people.
Can be agreed in the near future some part of this list is to give these people in return for five of our special forces.
– What’s next?
– The next stage for us is search. You need to find on the side of those whom we could not still find and explore on our side lists of people who did not give to the exchange. First and foremost is the “Golden eagle” tried for crimes on the Maidan, the citizens of Russia and persons convicted for especially grave crimes. Need to look at this list and understand what they can do and whom we can still change.
It is also necessary to understand how we can free our citizens sitting in prisons of the Russian Federation. Our best option is to exchange them citizens of Russia. Last we have up to three dozen, 14 of them confirmed the Russian foreign Ministry.
Our Ukrainians in Russia, including the Crimean Tatars, the list of more than sixty. Of these, 25 people were arrested in 2014 and I am in my fourth year.
I think politically the interstate exchange of Russians to Ukrainians will be impossible because Vladimir Putin said that the political prisoners of Ukraine in Russia any side in the Minsk process is not tied. And the exchange of “all for all” within the framework of the Minsk process and, incidentally, all of “our” Russians included in the list of the self-proclaimed LNR and DND.
What to do? You need to try to somehow link these two processes, or go direct exchanges. The same Ruslan Hajiyev and Victor Ageev, for example, stanisław of Cliche and Alexander Kolchenko because of their poor health.
You can go the way of some pre-election Amnesty for Ukrainians in Russia, and Amnesty for Russians we have. Or transferred to a “third party” – in ORDA, “getmintime” the promise of further liberation of our Russia. But there is a big risk that someone someone again get swindled.
– By the way, what happened to the imprisoned citizens of Russia in the exchange 27 Dec? They are kind of prepared to share, brought in a filtration camp, and then “felled” and brought back, and the courts have again made decisions about their detention?
– First of all, not all Russians were prepared to exchange. Some of them even are not prepared legally and not exported. On the other hand, most likely the return of the Russians through IDLO was probably a condition of the Russian side. And it was acceptable if Russia guaranteed gave the then Ukrainian political prisoners in any other way – by way of extradition, Amnesty, pardon – still! But it is clear that agreement by the time the exchange was.
There is such a process in these negotiations, when each party is trying to work honestly, and to trick the opponent. “Nadur” in the good sense of the word – to negotiate the most acceptable terms for themselves. And apparently when they agreed the terms of exchange with the Patriarch and the President of Russia was named just numbers. What people are included in these figures, while not advertise. Everybody wanted a result, and in publicly approved lists from them it would be impossible to retreat, to make replace people, we saw that many refused to go back to those areas.
The Ukrainian side has repeatedly made statements that it is required for the release of criminal offenders. Moreover, Zakharchenko also publicly stated that he does not need “drug addicts from Kherson or Nikolaev bandits”, and needed only fighting guys or people who have articles for separatism or terrorism, that is really shook Ukraine.
Different because the situation is fought, and was sitting at the civil and ordinary criminal offences whose relatives are fighting on the wrong side and were able to include them in the lists. In the end, the last and did not want to go to the other side where there is war and where their freedom they just need to somehow work out.
Despite the fact that in Ukraine a person can get out of prison and live in peace with the certificate of conviction.
– Likely many of the “refuseniks” and promised a quick release, right?
– Yes, it can and promised. Looked at them real time, stayed in prison and received sentences to see what can be done in the “Law Savchenko” and through PAROLE (parole – approx. MK) and promised a peaceful life in the territory. Maybe even those who refused the exchange and returned to their cells now remained two or three months before release. It’s all clear.
Through parole, clemency, or through sentences that “the Law Savchenko” will match the time already stayed in jail, may be released to go and ordinary train across the border of their cameras and Russian citizens. If there are guarantees that through certain mechanisms, albeit with the mediation of the Moscow Church, even weeks later, but Ukraine will send our people from the Russian colonies and prisons.
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